Thursday, February 23, 2006

Guilt by association

I feel all ecumenical tonight.

Why? Well, not so long ago I came across Brother Cloud, a Fundamental Baptist minister in the States. And he’s got these kind words to say about Karl Barth (as part of a rant against a man I think we can all respect: Billy Graham):
‘In his biography, [Billy] Graham praises KARL BARTH as “the great theologian” and states: “In spite of our theological differences, we remained good friends” (Graham, Just As I Am, p. 694). Graham does not warn his readers that Barth denied the New Testament faith. He refused to believe the virgin birth. He rejected the Bible as the infallible Word of God. Barth was also a wicked adulterer who kept a mistress in his house in the very presence of his wife, Nelly (Eberhard Busch, Karl Barth: His Life from Letters and Autobiographical Texts, translated by John Bowden, pp. 158,164,185-86).’
He starts off his pile of ... *takes a deep breath and thinks it wise he conduct this sentence with a good deal more graciousness than the sentence that first went through the brain* ... edifying eloquence, by quoting a scripture about the iniquity helping the enemies of God. The main case he has against Graham, you see, is that he said some nice things about:

*Loud drum ‘Dum dum dum dum’*
Catholics and the Pope!!
*The women scream and faint and all discerning pope-cursers shack their solemn heads*

It’s under the section entitled ‘Christ denying modernists’ that he attacks the likes of Barth, Newbigin (whose name he doesn’t even spell correctly), and Ramsey. And, of course, our author is a KJV only guy. Indeed, another gripe he has against Graham is that ‘GRAHAM HAS PROMOTED PRACTICALLY EVERY PERVERTED BIBLE VERSION TO APPEAR IN THE LAST FOUR DECADES’. I can imagine our dear Brother Cloud saying the word ‘pervert’ with real gusto! PERVERT!

Indeed, Mr Billy Graham I stand disgusted at such poor judgment. I really get fed up here in Germany about this topic. Rather than reading the KJV like all good Christians, they all insist on reading this crazy Luther bible, and other such heretical anti-KJV concoctions like the Elberfelder and Hoffnung für Alle.

German infidels.

Of course, the scholarship on the above linked to webpage is really quite *coughs down a word rhyming with ‘frollocks’* impressive and finishes of by turning to those cherry topics: evolution and biblical inerrancy.

Let me guess your reaction if you actually read his rant: You said either,

  1. ‘What the F[please insert a few letters of your choice]’
  2. ‘A discerning man this Cloud’
  3. ‘Why am I a Christian?’ (*then thinks of Jesus and remembers why, but was momentarily put off*)
  4. Made you want to say a short prayer: ‘God bless the pope’, and ‘thank God that other translations of the bible have been attempted since 1611’
  5. All the above apart from b)
I’ve been trying my very best not to swear in this post so I think I’ve been quite well behaved all in all. But I’d better finish this post now before I start.


At 2/24/2006 12:41 AM, Anonymous Paul said...

5. With the additional thoughts, "I'm so ashamed right now that I'm American and Baptist - though thankfully not Independent Fundamental Baptist," along with some of the words you chose to leave out.

At 2/24/2006 1:01 AM, Anonymous Jim said...

My reaction? Such ignorance is so utterly disgusting that it makes me want to pack the toad up and send him to Baghdad with a big sticker on the box he's in that says "I am an American- please take me home with you" (in Arabic of course).

At 2/24/2006 2:42 AM, Anonymous T.B. Vick said...

Yikes, Pope hating, Barth bashing, and Graham smashing - sounds like Simon on American Idol!!

What a wanker this "Brother Cloud" is.

At 2/24/2006 7:14 AM, Anonymous Tyler F. Williams said...

As a "small b" baptist in Canada, I want to disassociate myself from this nutball!

At 2/24/2006 7:27 AM, Anonymous C. Stirling Bartholomew said...

Say now, I grew up long time ago on the far left end of the Evangelical spectrum and my old buddies had some major problems with "Dr" Graham back then and still do. Not the same problems that the KJV-only types have but problems nonetheless. When someone starts bashing Graham in my presence. I just change the subject.


At 2/24/2006 5:31 PM, Anonymous Chris Tilling said...

I understand Paul and Tyler. I was converted in a Baptist church myself, and it actually gave me a lot I'm grateful for.

Jim, and Todd, I am stunned!!! 'Toad' and 'wanker'?! What would your mothers' say? Soap, mouth, water, instantly!

Clay, that sounds very wise! Thanks again for your comments. Volker really appreciated your encouragement, btw.

At 2/24/2006 7:17 PM, Anonymous Chris T. said...

Made you want to say a short prayer: ‘God bless the pope’, and ‘thank God that other translations of the bible have been attempted since 1611’

Who needs translations from before 1611? Obviously reading the Vulgate is required for salvation.


Incidentally, I got the first volume of CD in the mail and will start reading it as soon as I get through the first volume of Tillich. I can only ascribe this bizarre step in my theological development to some unholy influence from you and Ben.

At 2/24/2006 10:57 PM, Anonymous Chris Tilling said...

Hi Chris!
That ‘duck’ was good timing. I almost landed one on the side after that comment.
All the best with the CD. I’m glad to have been an unholy influence! You know, I’m a baby in this as well. Ben’s the expert. I will start volume 3 as soon as they arrive in the post. Yes. ALL of them will arrive hopefully within the next week. *I’m drooling already* I’ll tell all about it in due time.

At 2/27/2006 8:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chris: I need to inform you that the correct interpretation of Rev. 20:8 actually speaks of Blog and Mablog - two characters who are even now fulfilling their apocalyptic roles! But I'm really here (after running into your refreshing blog, which hopefully caused little damage) to bring up, as an American, some rather serious points. One lone historian over here has spent decades locating long-covered-up and forgotten documents relative to dispensationalism's development, research prosecuted mainly in Britain. Although the British were the first developers and heralds, they have long since "seen the light" and have largely abandoned that scheme which still attracts many U.S. schemers (everyone from Cloud to multi-millionaires such as Lindsey and LaHaye who's still making LaHay while LaSun is shining!). The above little-known historian has a fascinating web piece entitled "Pretrib Rapture Diehards" on Google for anyone interested in d-ism's bizarre and long hidden background, and I've noted in years past kudos for his findings coming from scholars like Peter Beyerhaus (Tubingen). Current praise can be seen by typing in "Scholars Weigh My Research." If boredom is beginning to overtake you, let me share a few of the explosive facts the same historian has uncovered which, for various reasons, other scholars have failed to report: (1) John Darby was not original on any of d-ism's key aspects (literal method, church/Israel separation, Gentile - or church - parenthesis, the pretribulation rapture, etc.), (2) the Irvingites and their inspiration, Margaret Macdonald, clearly taught the pretrib escapism many years before Darby did, (3) the earliest pretrib development rested on only unexplained SYMBOLS in the book of Revelation since those developers all admitted that it wasn't found in the exegesis of any passage; in fact, it took developers 40 years to stretch their rapture forward from Rev. 14 to Rev. 12 to Rev. 11 and finally settle on the symbol of John in Rev. 4:1 - the incentive being to get out of as much of Revelation's "horrors" as possible!, (4) Darby's pretrib basis for 30 years was the "man child" symbol in Rev. 12, and (5) during the six decades following pretribism's birth, all leading church historians, whether Irvingite or Plymouth Brethren, attributed the pretrib view to someone in Irving's orbit while none gave Darby credit for it; after Darby's death his editor, William Kelly, while supposedly airing an impartial series on d-ism's history in his own journal, actually (and deviously) made hundreds of changes while quoting early Irvingite and Brethren documents in order to steal credit for pretrib away from Irving's followers and wrongfully give it to Darby - the real reason why evangelicals have unwittingly called Darby the "father" of d-ism since then (never dreaming that one of the greatest hoaxes in theological history had taken place!). What I am saying, Chris, is that you could air these little-known facts and burst not a few balloons here in rapture-crazy America where fund-raising TV evangelists and other rapturescape artists demonstrate why FUND is in FUNDamentalism!

At 2/28/2006 12:56 AM, Anonymous Chris Tilling said...

Why remain anon, anon?

At 9/28/2008 11:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I found out that the historian of pretrib history (above) who has those web items also has written the bestselling book "The Rapture Plot" which is carried by Armageddon Books online. Check it out. Max


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